Talk: House Forrester
Hey guys I wanted to put all the information about House Forrester as it is Secondary-canon from Telltale's upcoming game, but I'm stuck. I have been trying to figure out references and haven't been able to. So if anyone wants links for the information so they can do it for me i'd be very grateful. A lesson would be nice as well, but no one needs to teach me unless they want to. Have a good day/night all.
Ahoy. The game looks great, but I'm afraid it isn't canon at all, secondary or not. The closest it could be is "HBO Canon", and even that's no confirmed. As this wiki is for only book-canon material, I suggest editing the game details off. - El-Daddy
- That is not correct. Most editors are mostly focussed on the books but we never considered excluding other media. The only rule is that if there are contradictions then we follow the books. (Of course we also mention the contradiction.) Scafloc
It should be made clear when the info comes from a semi-canon or non-canon source. The Household and Historical Members section could confuse people as written.--RumHam 21:40, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
- We should always use references so the reader knows where the informations comes from but I think you that's not what you mean. Can you elaborate on this? Scafloc 22:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Some people may not look at the sources when reading, or may not know what the game is or that it is not book-canon. It would be easy to read the page now and think that the people listed under "Household" actually exist in the world of the books. I would suggest putting all the video game stuff at the bottom under a separate heading to avoid confusion. Similar to how http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marillion puts the TV show version of him at the bottom in another section.
Personally I don't think the video game info should be on here at all, but that's just me. For example we don't have pages for Alester Sarwyck or Mors Westfold nor are they listed on the pages for the Red Priests or Night's Watch respectively. We just have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_(2012_video_game) Is it just because this game doesn't totally suck?--RumHam 16:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
I suggest we place all the information from the game under the heading "Game of Thrones - A Telltale Games Series", to avoid confusion.. So all the Forresters who appear in the game, instead of being listed under "House Forrester at the end of the third century", would then be placed under "Game of Thrones - A Telltale Games Series", stating "the following members of House Forrester appear in the game: (list of characters)". The fact that the house is featured in the game with playable characters can remain mentioned in the introduction line, above the list of contents.. Does everyone agree? --Rhaenys_Targaryen 19:19, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- The reason that the characters of the other game were not included is probably because there are not enough users that are interested in the game (to spend time creating an article about it). Definitely not a conscious decision to exclude it. About using a separate paragraph for them I agree. Though should Martin include some the characters in future books we should remove the separate paragraph. I also think that in the articles of the characters themselves we should state, in the first lines of the article, that the character is mentioned in the game and not in the books.
- About the reference should we refer to the separate episodes of the game (and include this option in the Ref template)?Scafloc 19:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- Areed, this game should be included in the templates, with the ability to distinguish between the episodes. I've placed the game-only info in the separate heading. Naturally, when a game-only character appears in canon material from Martin in the future, the page will be edited accordingly.
- The only thing I haven't changed yet, are the house words, and the seat name.. Those are game-only as well. Should they remain in the info box, or do we put those only under the "game" heading?--Rhaenys_Targaryen 21:00, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
- I think it would be okay to include the seat and words in the current infobox with footnotes mentioning their video game origin, or a separate game infobox (with their in-game sigil?) could be added to this article. Also, I agree with Scafloc that we can also create articles for Houses Sarwyck, Westford, and Harlton from the GOT RPG, as long as it is noted that they are not primary canon. Nittanian 22:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
So Spake Martin
I asked GRRM about this via his blog, in terms of canon for the TV show over on Game of Thrones Wiki, though his response was what I assumed:
- The Dragon Demands: "Is the game "TV-continuity"? Over at the wiki we're unsure of how to include it, no one tells us anything. So far we've been tentatively treating it as "near-canon" for the TV continuity. But some debate whether we should include info about "Ramsay Snow" from the video game on the "Ramsay Snow, TV series" article, or just make a separate one.
- My hope is that the game is....the analogy I'd use is that old Cadfael mystery series, about a monk whose abbey is in a town on the Welsh border during the Anarchy between Stephen and Matilda. The main course of the civil war is going on, but the TV series zoomed in to show how it is affecting one tiny corner of England.
- The more I heard about it the more I was impressed that they were actually respecting the source material - doing pretty much what I'd do for a spinoff game: not invent entirely new major Houses from scratch, but focus on the second-tier minor Houses that we rarely hear about, bannermen to Houses like the Glovers. And I was excited that they actually picked a House name that actually exists in the books (a "House Forrester" was mentioned as bannermen of the Glovers in ADWD).
- Also sometimes it gets confusing to distinguish "major House" (Umber, Karstark, Glover) from "minor House" (Cassel, Poole, etc.) -- maybe it would have been better to call them "Barons" or something, and the major Houses "Lords"...but that's near 20 years water under the bridge at this point.
- I know you don't write for the game but I didn't know if the other writers had at least mentioned, "yeah we're going to work in mentions about the Forresters in Season 5". They do something similar with the tie-in game for the SyFy series "Defiance" - David J. Peterson also created the alien languages for that show. The main live-action show will make stray references to characters from the game now and again."
- GRRM: "All I really control is what is "book canon" (the novels and the Dunk & Egg stories and the worldbook). It's up to HBO and David & Dan to determine what is "TV canon."
- The Telltale guys worked with Ty Franck, who was my right hand here for half a decade."
- --The Dragon Demands 21:14, 6 December 2014 (UTC)