User talk:Zionius

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Errata Lord Mallister

Hi Zionius,

You argue in the ASOS errata that calling Jason Mallister a lord prior to Robert's Rebellion is a mistake. You cite this passage from ACOK:

Jaime poured the last half cup of wine. "He rode into the Red Keep with a few companions, shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. But Rhaegar wasn't there. Aerys sent his guards to arrest them all for plotting his son's murder. The others were lords' sons too, it seems to me."
"Ethan Glover was Brandon's squire," Catelyn said. "He was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn's nephew and heir." It was queer how she still remembered the names, after so many years. "Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court to answer the charge, with the sons as hostages. When they came, he had them murdered without trial. Fathers and sons both."

Jaime assumes they were lord's sons and Catelyn does not correct him. Jaime may be right or wrong, either way it is a small detail unlikely to be pick up by Catelyn. Plus as Catelyn points out, Elbert was not a lord's son but a lord's nephew.

If Jaime is correct and therefore naming Jason a lord in the White Book is in fact a little mistake then:

  1. Do you believe the brother Jason avenged in the Battle of the Trident, according to the roleplaying game, was Jeffory ?
  2. Is it also a mistake to refer to Yohn Royce as a lord at this time ? Was Kyle his brother ? Or was Kyle a member of the junior Royces and a brother to Nestor Royce ?

Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 13:58, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah Jaime's word could just be talk in general. If we regard it as true, then:
  1. Jason would most likely be Jeffory's father's younger brother, if we take the semi-canon source into consideration.
  2. I don't know if Yohn Royce was called a lord before the Rebellion. It seems Kyle could be from either branch. The junior branch more likely, since Nestor Royce became the High Steward in 283 AC, a nice match. Zionius (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Marlon Manderly

Are you sure the White Harbor knight described as "a hard-faced greybeard whose bloodstained surcoat showed three silvery mermaids upon a violet field" is Ser Marlon Manderly ? Is he mentioned by name somewhere in the chapter ? Is it even mentioned that Marlon left White Harbor with Wyman ? --Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 15:01, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm 99% sure. They got three commons: 1.grey beard 2.his sigil says he is from some branch of Manderly 3. both are household knights. Marlon is not directly mentioned elsewhere beside that Davos chapter though. But this is as obvious as Quentyn saw Penny and Groat Zionius (talk) 10:01, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
OK we don't know at 100% but I agree chances are high for Marlon to be at Winterfell and the three silvery mermaids to be his personal sigil.
1. Three mermaids
Wyman and Marlon are cousins which in GRRM's speech can mean anything from first cousin to any other degree of relationship really (for example, Egg and Bloodraven refer to each other as "cousins" in The Mystery Knight despite them being half great-uncle/half great-nephew). But if those two really are first cousin, then the three mermaids make sense if we imagine Wyman's father being the older brother, Donella's father being the middle brother, and Marlon's father the younger brother.
2. Marlon at Winterfell
While Marlon is not mentioned after Davos III, it does makes sense for him to have traveled with Wyman to Winterfell. Wyman can't lead his men into battle himself (inability to ride a horse + throat severely injured by Hosteen Frey). He will need someone to do that, who better than his trusted cousin Marlon ? Marlon is definitevely in on Wyman's plans as he was present at the Merman's Court and was the one to accompany Davos to the Wolf's Den on Wyman's orders.
Marlon is not your typical fat Manderly knight either, he is tall and fit (described as being one head taller and three stones heavier than Davos). I'm guessing GRRM wanted this physical difference to be noted by the readers when he pick the name "Marlon" ("M" being the reverse of "W"; Marlon but Wyman, Wylis, and Wendel). Marlon already commands the White Harbor knights back home (as the commander of the garrison), so why not in battle ?
All and all, Marlon is the perfect guy to meet Stannis in the aftermath of the Battle of Ice and tell him about both the Davos and Winterfell situation. With the Freys at the bottom of the lake, Wyman scheming inside, and Stannis and Marlon together outside, the Boltons will lose Winterfell for sure.